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TOPIC: Author Respect
#59653
Ashley
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Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 3
Okay, I do not post a lot to the forum; in fact I think that this is my first thread. I really hope this is okay but I feel like I need to say something. As a fan fiction author and avid fan fiction reader I realize that fan fiction is important to a lot of people. When Dokuga was down for almost a day I nearly lost my mind. I believe that fan fiction writers are some of the best writers in the world because they are passionate about the characters they write about. I think that this needs to be taken into account before you review a fic. Please do not misunderstand me, I do believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but there is always a good and respectful way to get your point across. Even with my stories, I have gotten reviews from people who are just downright mean and my writing has slowed because of it. I put a lot of myself in my work as I am sure most authors do. Constructive criticism is one thing and it is something I appreciate and feel I can grow from as an author but unfortunately this is not what happens sometimes. I have seen many authors leave this site and many others because of the harsh words of others and I think that is something we can all work together to stop. When reviewing we should take in to consideration the authors feelings as this is not something we have to do, it is something we choose to do.
- Ashley-Sama
 
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Inuashley
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#59654
criticat
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 10
Meanies on Dokuga? Surely not! I encountered some on other sites but Dokugians I find to be very lovely and helpful. But I do agree that a negative review can be a serious put down. One of my fics is currently 'on hiatus' due to that. It is silly but every time I am ready to post I keep thinking, does it really look as if it going nowhere? It wasn't that the review was particularly mean, it just picked on something that upset me. However, that said, I think authors should be prepared for all types of critique. What is rude for one is not seen as such by the other so perhaps a review wasn't meant to be harsh.
 
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#59655
Terri-tots
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 16
If anyone on Dokuga is being mean/harsh/whatever in their reviews and you do no appreciate it, than please contact the site admins. They will be more than happy to look into it for you, and even remove the post if necessary. (And if it is an Anon. Review, they can simply remove it.)

Nobody on this site should have to deal with negativity. There is little tolerance for that kind of behavior.

As for off site-- keep in mind, this is the internet. You are never going to avoid getting one or two mean comments from people when your work is out there FOR the people to see. You take the good with the bad. Understand that the bad is typically a result of someone sitting at their keyboard and looking to stir up trouble.

So really, don't take it too much to heart.
 
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#59656
Ashley
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 3
Unfortunatly there are some mean ones here too, although I do say that they are few and far between especially compared to other sites. However based on my experience here, there are a few people who think its okay to put down the author. I am not talking about "I disagree with this or that", I am speaking of the "you suck" comments. There is a huge difference.
 
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#59657
naqaashi
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 34
What you're saying is a fair enough point, but here at Dokuga we've got a very strict policy on reviews. Criticism is allowed only if you give the author reasons behind the criticism and suggestions on fixing the problem, too. And of course, criticism must be balanced with genuine praise.

In other words, Dokuga has a policy of fair reviewing and constructive, balanced criticism put down in reviews. I have never heard of anyone leaving the site because they got harsh reviews, and the unwritten (now written, too, I think) rule is that if you get a review you aren't happy with, then please contact one of the site Admins about it, and they will deal with the issue.

I'm a bit confused though...did you get reviewed harshly, or is this a general comment?
 
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#59658
WiccanMethuselah
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 208
If you are receiving unnecessarily harsh reviews, the thing to do is come to the Administrators with them. We have a rule in place regarding reviews, as well as a tutorial on how to give constructive criticism in a review:

http://www.dokuga.com/forum/34-authors-tools/51608-dokuga-authors-tutorial-reviews

In someone doesn't understand our rules, I would be delighted to offer them an in-depth explanation as to why we don't flame our authors on Dokuga. If you've received an anonymous review of a flamish variety, you need to come to one of the Admins (like me) and let me know. I can remove the flame and do some digging into the flamer's whereabouts (whether they are a member but not logged in, etc.).

We do not tolerate flames on Dokuga. Period. We depend on our members and authors, though, to let us know when it happens!!

~~Wiccan~~
 
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Last Edit: 2011/02/24 12:19 By wiccanmethuselah. Reason: Got a little "though" happy
 

\"The foolish and the dead alone never change their opinion.\"
- James Russell Lowell 1864


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#59659
Ashley
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 3
I have been reviewed harshly here-yes. Do not get me wrong I love, love, love it here and I think that the site adminstators here have worked very hard to stop this. There are always a few that slip through the cracks. I won't name names, but yes there are authors who have left this site due to nasty reviews.
 
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#59662
WiccanMethuselah
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 208
Ashley wrote:
I have been reviewed harshly here-yes. Do not get me wrong I love, love, love it here and I think that the site adminstators here have worked very hard to stop this. There are always a few that slip through the cracks. I won't name names, but yes there are authors who have left this site due to nasty reviews.

We can't do a thing about it unless we KNOW about it. I could go through all the reviews on all your stories to find what you're referring to, or you could just tell me. So far, I have found one true flame on April 24, 2010 in one of your stories. If there are others, I obviously haven't found them yet. I can't enforce rules if I'm unaware of the violations... and I don't have the time to read every review on every story.

If authors have left the site because of negative reviews, there's nothing I can do to prevent that... not if I'm not informed. If you are upset over your negative reviews, I CAN fix that, but only if you'll assist me in enforcing the rules.

~~Wiccan~~
 
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\"The foolish and the dead alone never change their opinion.\"
- James Russell Lowell 1864


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#59663
Kagome Yuki Niwa
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 36
In all honesty, I find this silly. Flames are ridiculous, true, but an author should never take any criticism to heart. Period. If you post something, anything, whether it be a picture of yourself, a story, a blog, a movie, etc via the internet then of course there will be people that say 'you suck!' or you 'you're ugly' blah blah BLAH.

The fact that people have left sites because of something so ridiculous is sad. In all honesty, people have to take everything other people say with a grain a salt.

I've been flamed a few times too and yeah, it was so un-cool and yeah I flipped a bucket over it and post this love Author's Note about it but the fact of the matter remains, I didn't know the flamer so what does it matter? It shouldn't be discouraging because half the people that DO flame are terrible at it.

It's most stuff like, "This story sucks and you should die for writing it" Really? C'mon.

Dokuga is GREAT at keeping flames away but this really goes for any site you post on. FF.N doesn't have that moderation so those of us that post there have an even bigger risk at getting harsh flames.

In a roundabout way, I'm saying that trying to rid the world of flames is totally not happening and the only place it most like WON'T happen is Dokuga and that's because our moderators are awesome. 'Nuff said.

OH! And people shouldn't take what other people say so seriously, especially flames. Because flames have poor grammar, are terribly written, and given by people that have nothing better to do.
 
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#59666
Ashley
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 3
I guess my point with this post was that people need to be more considerate. That flame was reported, I think. Anyway I know that your are busy and If I have anymore I will e-mail them to you. Thanks for your concern.

Authors need to follow suit an e-mail the site administrators when this happens.
 
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Inuashley
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#59689
ladybattousai
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: -666
I think the point needs to be made that almost every reader is a nice reviewer. I mean, we're talking a high percentage here. And I can almost guarantee that everyone who will read this thread will be either an author themselves or a considerate reviewer. Most writers who get flames, get very, very few. And maybe it all depends on the type of story you write and where you post it. Either way, it's rare. You're more likely to get a nice review than a mean one. You're more likely to get one that makes no sense than a mean one (I get those way too often).

The point is, is that author respect is alive and well. We receive loads of respect on a constant basis. And we do deserve respect, because we put ourselves out there. And if someone leaves this site because they feel like they're not getting enough respect, then I'm truly sorry. We do all we can to ensure maximum respect.

On a side note, this thread feels very much like a rant rather than a discussion. Rants are against forum policy. Just putting that out there since this thread is riding the line.
 
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#59692
knifethrower
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 75
The reviews I have received on Dokuga have been nicer by far than on the other two fanfiction sites upon which my stories are posted. I have a very faithful reviewer on Media Miner who is beyond brutal, and even taking blatant flaming out of the equation, all the interactions I have experienced on Dokuga are noticeably kinder and more supportive than is typical of the rest of the internet world. I am the kind of person who detests being told what to do or how to conduct myself in any way, but, in spite of that, I have to give kudos to the moderators of this site, for making it such a positive and safe place for us to explore our creativity and play in.
 
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#59695
Ashley
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 3
This is defiantly not a rant as I am not angry. Again, one of my fav writers left and i just noticed it today and it prompted me to write this. I was something I wanted to discuss. I know for a fact that this person left for harsh reviews and it bothered me. I apologize if this feels like a rant to you. It was just my thoughts on this matter.
 
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#59697
ladybattousai
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: -666
It's a pity that someone left for that reason. This should be a positive place for everyone, and I'm a firm believer in that almost anything can be smoothed over if given the chance.

Now here's a question, was it a tactless review or a flame? There is a difference.
 
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#59700
Morgan
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 5
Kagome Yuki Niwa...I gave you Karma for your reply...you took the words right outta my mouth.
 
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#59701
Kagome Yuki Niwa
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 36
;D Then I give you winky faces!
 
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#59703
Avadrea
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 27
There is only one comment I have gotten that has bugged me. "I dont get it." What don't they get? All of it? If there was some part of my story they didn't understand I would like to know so I could clean it up or clarify it in some way. Sometimes I'm not sure if what I want to say is being expressed right. It would have been very helpful to me as a writer if they had been more clear on what they didn't understand cause than I could have improved it. It still kinda bugs me because I wounder if there is something I need to fix but I don't know what.
 
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Last Edit: 2011/02/25 01:12 By Avadrea.
 
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#59705
Rowdys girl
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 12
There is NEVER ANY reason to leave mean comments in a review. If you can't say something nice, then DON'T say ANYTHING AT ALL! The people who write these stories do it on their time and without pay, NO ONE has ANY RIGHT to be RUDE or INSULTING to any of them! They are learning their craft and if you don't like the story then QUIT READING IT!!! And you can do that WITHOUT comment!!!
 
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This is starting to make sense... time to up my medication.

I live in my own little world, but it\\\'s okay, they know me here.

Even if the voices are not real - they have some pretty good ideas!

I don\\\'t suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.

Until further notice, celebrate everything!
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#59710
Pyreite
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 57
Most reviewers are likely to give you helpful advice, and or feedback on your writing, some will be useful, and others not. I myself have received probably a handful of reviews that weren't necessarily critical, but asked for elaboration on certain aspects of one particular story I did. The result was that I changed that story from a oneshot to a chaptered fic, and extended it beyond what I had originally intended. A good example of how positive feedback can be motivational for a writer, and that was here on Dokuga.

Also as a writer you will also get reviews that are often incomprehensible, I get that most frequently on FFNet, with requests for rapid updates most of the time. These ones I usually ignore for the simple fact is that Real Life takes priority, and I can only update when I have free-time. Simple. Also, other reviews you might receive will be good critique to encourage you to improve grammar, writing and spelling etc, or re-thinking plot-lines which is also helpful. Other reviews will be overly critical, impolite, and borderline inappropriate, these can be collectively termed 'Flames'.

The issue here perhaps is not the review process itself by which an author receives feedback for their stories, but the method by which reviewers go about giving feedback. Constructive is good, generally positive feedback is also good, but perhaps the most effective in actuality that which is the most thoughtful. The reviewer might see a problem the author would otherwise have overlooked in the story, and point it out, suggest a method of improvement or lend their experience breifly in suggesting a correction such as the spelling of words or proper grammar.

Flames should be taken worth a grain of salt, agreed, as most are likely written by people seeking to cause trouble, and or to provoke some form of reaction from the author intended to receive the feedback. If the person uses derogatory words, vulgarities, open insults, e.t.c, than the review should be reported immediately to the Administrators. The system works here on Dokuga, and is encouraged. The Admin's cannot help you if they don't know about it. The power here is therefore in the hands of the author to take the initiative, and to contact the appropriate person or persons who can take the next step and help you to resolve the issue.

Furthermore, if you review, and have a point to get across to the author that you believe is important, use etiquette (i.e. good manners). Simple is best, but be polite. It is very easy to offend a person if you don't think about what you are writing. The anonymity of the internet unfortunately gives little accountability if reviewers do step over the line (unless it is reported to the Administrators). Believe me when I say that I have read reviews when this premise was ignored, and derogatory terms were utilized in a review to antagonize the author on the receiving end of the review. The feedback than steps directly into the bounds of a 'Flame' which is inappropriate, and is openly discouraged on Dokuga.

I can't speak for other sites, but if the website is large, and complex like FFNet, a negative review filled with derogatory terms etc is likely to be in breach of the Terms of Service. Report the person, or if it is an anonymous review report them again, or if you have the ability alter the option to reject anonymous reviews from your account User panel when you login to the site, disable the anonymous reviews. Note that this is possible on FFNet. All reviews regardless of being anonymous or otherwise are logged, time-stamped, and recorded. So if you get a 'Flame' our Admin's can take the next step, but only if you tell them about it, so I recommend using PM to do so as soon as you become aware of the review.

Perhaps the main point I would like to make is that as an author you are submitting your work for scrutiny by others. You will get favorable, and unfavorable reviews. The internet is a public forum, although websites have individual rules governing the Terms of Use etc. An author on the receiving end of unfavourable feedback, especially if it is a 'Flame' has a responsibility to contact the Administrative staff of the site to resolve the issue.

We belong to a community. We help, and we respect each other, and that codus is exceptionally well supported and encouraged on Dokuga. Other sites have their own rules and methods to resolve issues, check their Terms of Service (TOS) procedures, website 'Rules' or similar on the site that are available for reading if you are unsure about what to do.

~ Pyre
 
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Last Edit: 2011/02/25 03:06 By Pyre.
 
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#59712
Lucy Morningstar
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 3
Avadrea wrote:
There is only one comment I have gotten that has bugged me. "I dont get it." What don't they get? All of it? If there was some part of my story they didn't understand I would like to know so I could clean it up or clarify it in some way. Sometimes I'm not sure if what I want to say is being expressed right. It would have been very helpful to me as a writer if they had been more clear on what they didn't understand cause than I could have improved it. It still kinda bugs me because I wounder if there is something I need to fix but I don't know what.

Total-freaking-ly.

Sometimes the reader will try to make the author feel better by adding "..but I like it," which numbs me even more. I'm not saying such comments are bad, but it doesn't, in anyway at all, inflate my ego. *grins*

On the other hand, in my opinion a mature author, or anyone for that matter who showcases himself and his work in public, must always implement this simple rule in his head: YOU CANNOT PLEASE EVERYONE.

The purpose of criticism is to re-look at ourselves from another point of view and improve.

I know for normal people like us, when we pour our hearts into writing something, only to receive something like "Okay what the * is that, lame dumb story ever!!!" is enough to send us into a mental breakdown and consecutively give up, but please don't. It only means you're giving up FOR these numbskulls.

It's almost impossible to stop these people, especially in the Internet, but most of the time people who give mean comments do not feel towards you personally. So it's silly to do otherwise for them.

Take it in your stride. Don't be too serious, or you will die quickly.

That's my piece. Sorry if I talk too much. Goodluck to everyone.
 
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#59715
ladybattousai
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: -666
Please keep in mind that some people do not have an ounce of tact. What they say is blunt and not coated in anything of a sugary nature. Perhaps it's a cultural deal or a social/mental one. They don't mean to offend, but they don't have the where with all to sufficiently protect the writer's ego. They don't realize that a word or a sentence they're using is hurtful to you.

And Rowdy, to say that no one should ever write anything mean is an impossible feat, because everyone has a different interpretation of mean. Straight up flames are a no brainer, but I've seen people get bent out of shape when they've received a constructive crit that didn't have enough praise buried in it.

To be on the internet where anyone can read what you write, you need to toughen up. It's really that simple. For those of you who wish to write on a professional level, you're going to have to deal with unpleasant reviews. It's gonna happen.
 
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#59718
MoxyMikki
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 28
I'm sorry people have had bad experiences in reviews. I try and take less than flattering reviews and turn it into a possitive. If someone flames then at least you know what you wrote impacted them enough to comment. *shrugs* Just don't let it stop you from writing. If you do let it... then they win.
 
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#59720
Discontent Winter
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 23
I don't feel authors deserve respect per say... but rather everyone deserves to be treated with respect. Unfortunately, there will always be transgressions on the parts of both reviewers and authors, since I have not yet been inaugurated as Empress of the World and declared it to be law... Someday perhaps...

On the other side of the fence, there have been authors who will ask for constructive criticism in one chapter because their reviews are low. In the next, they'll blast a reviewer that actually provides it. The good news is: the only place at Dokuga you're likely to find this sort of thing is in the Spark Archives, which operates under a different ruleset.

IMO, the only way to respond to nonconstructive flames is to report them to the admins of the respective site, then ignore them. Mean people are generally unhappy and like to make other people unhappy as well. Do the opposite and focus on the next review which may have something worthwhile to say. Skip them and move on to the warm fuzzies and/or self improvement suggestions. Direct responses only validate a person's thinking and bring attention to them. No one ever wins a flame war with their dignity intact unless they skip out on the battle.

As a general note to authors as well, try to keep an open mind when reading constructive criticism. Everyone has a different perception and just because a reader does not agree with yours, does not make either perception wrong. You don't have to agree with them. They don't have to agree with you. All either of you have to do is be true to yourselves. Also, not everyone is always articulate in their responses and they don't always choose the best wording. An author might perceive an unintentional insult in poorly worded criticism.

Of course, threads of this nature probably would benefit more people constructively if it were posted on the front page of FFN, but what can you do?
 
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#59724
Miss Anna
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 15
I have gotten some reviews that didn't sit well with me but I have come to think of them in a different light.

We write to show people are skills not look for respect because respect is earned, it shouldn't be that you write a story no matter the skill and get respect for it. That is solely on the reader is they wish to respect you or not.

Now as a fellow author I have the utmost respect for another fellow author and artist on this site and anywhere else. It takes alot of courage to put yourself out there to strangers not knowing what kind of response you will get back...so kudos to my all writers and artists on Dokuga and everywhere else.-huggles-

Like everyone has said if you get a review that doesn't settle well with you take it to the admins, or make a note in your author note that you do not wish for those types of reviews. Or you could ask for them to pm you directly if they have something other than a 'nice' review.
 
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#59899
Walter205
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Re:Author Respect 7 Years, 3 Months ago Karma: 47
For the most part the bad reviews I've recieved are for stories where the reviewer doesn't grasp that it's a crackfic, and so are left totally confused and come to the conclusion that it's a horrible story.

As for the giving part, the only time I remember disrepecting an author was a brand new writer that still was learning the ropes and had bad spelling and grammer, yet was holding her first story hostage for reviews, upon which I promptly left a review saying to the effect "That only works when good stories written by experienced authors are worth being held hostage".
 
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