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Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories
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TOPIC: Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories
#59875
Anna
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Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 1
So...recently I've been pretty t-ed off that good fanfiction is so hard to find. Of course you can filter by reviews, recommendations, and other people's fav's. But I was thinking, is it possible for Dokuga to screen fanfiction? Or would that not be efficient at all? Cause after being in the fandom for a lonnnnggg time, obviously all the oldie goodie's have been read, and it's time to venture into new story territory. And that's the part that upsets me the most. While on the mecca of all fanfics, I tried to find something good to read, and ended up with a brain full of rape/abuse/cheating/bad grammer/mary-sue/author/weirdasshit.

I guess my discussion point is, have you guys ever wished for a spamfic filter? Where all the badie fics get rejected? Or is that just super elitist and mean of me...Cause honestly, I think I developed some pretty elite tastes after reading authors like Forthy and the other greats....

I mean, it would be nice to not have to worry about reading marysue's and knowing for a fact that the story you're reading comes with an approval stamp...but do you guys think that it would take the fun out of fichunting? Or would it make life easier to bare?

Also, I probably should add, that I'm not suggesting that this should happen, perhaps I'm just frustrated by fanfiction.net and all their mumbo jumbo ads. Though I have to admit, marysue's have a real way of grating on my no flaming rule.
 
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Last Edit: 2011/02/28 01:46 By Knox.
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#59878
cakeiton
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 45
As someone who is writing their first fanfic now I like the atmosphere at Dokuga. It's a place about the whole Sess/Kag pairing, and I haven't felt a "cliquey" vibe whatsoever since being here. I guess a good thing about hunting for fics is finding authors you would have never thought about reading before. I understand your argument however I feel like if everyone is getting canceled out due to being compared to the few greats it takes the fun out of expressing your own fandom, and the opportunity to get better at writing/arts/whatnot.
 
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#59880
R.M. Avalon
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 10
As far as being a picky reader goes, I feel your pain. I get turned off of stories VERY easily and for the smallest reasons. But just because I don't find myself enjoying a fic doesn't mean that it's a bad fic. Having a 'spamfic' filter would only work if you were to physically read through each of the fics on the site and weed out the ones that you don't like. There's no way for a computer program to understand your personal taste.

Also take this into consideration; can you imagine how hurtful it would be for someone who had worked their absolute hardest on a fic to discover that it had been labeled as spam?

The best way to find good new fics is to ask around. Or to just take the plunge and click on a fc that you've never read before. The worst thing that happens is that you don't like it and you stop reading it after the first few chapters.
 
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#59882
Pyreite
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 57
I'm picky too. I read most of the well-known ficlets by Forthy, RosieB, TallyMark, and Remiseranda. I only trip back to them when they update to read more of my fav ones that are currently being written too. I prefer a reasonable level of competence in spelling, grammar and punctuation in the ficlets I read. I prefer to proof-read before submitting ficlets, but everyone is different.

Some websites utilise a peer-review system before ficlets are uploaded, it takes time, and the process can be incredibly biased too. I've seen this screening process for fanfics on a website, and it wasn't done very well.

Other sites rate by the number of stars, but its not real indication of spelling, grammar etc, only of people's tastes and preferences in what they like to read. It's possible on some sites to filter by the number of reviews, favourites etc, but again it's not an indication of the 'quality' of writing, only of how much people 'like' the ficlet.

~ Pyre
 
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Last Edit: 2011/02/28 02:57 By Pyre.
 
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#59883
Anna
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 1
Yea, I was thinking about how fan bases also have different aged groups, and obviously, an 11 year old isn't going to be as great as someone older. Also, Dokuga is pretty unique in how it's a pretty tight knit community and everyone is encouraging. It would be pretty depression to shoot down an 11 year old just starting out to write instead of nurturing it. However, Fanfiction.net is just SO LARGE that I literally have to wade through dozens of mind numbing troll posts to find one diamond in the rough. Although I think it'd be pretty neat if Dokuga had something where they clump all the 'Classics' together...That would save time!
 
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#59884
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 18
Can't really have a filter based on your tastes. What you like, many others may hate. So that would be unfair not only to the author that is not able to post, but to the other readers. Everyone has a different opinion and that's just the way it is.

As far as saving the classics go, why don't you just mark the stories you like as a favorite? That way you never have to look for them when you want to reread one.
 
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#59885
Quiet Whisper
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 13
I think as a whole you're failing to realize that not everyone who posts here (or on any fan-site) is a published author, shoot I'd be willing to bet that there are probably only a handful of people who do fall under that category. The fact of the matter is this is practice for all of us as well as a means of escaping our realities. No not everyone is going to be good at spelling or punctuation, nor are they going to be good with their words. But if they don't write then they don't get the practice they need, and to weed them out simply because their talent hasn't fully bloomed is harsh and unfair.
I know it can be a pain to wade through the numerous stories to find one you like, but you also have to keep in mind that everyone is different, and they are going to enjoy reading different things. What you may think is a classic could be just another story among many to someone else.
Yes there are some very talented authors out there, and they do receive the praise they deserve, but even so they aren't the only people out there writing. You never know someone could have written a fantastic story but because they are an unknown or because it doesn't have as many reads, it could be overlooked and not receive the attention it deserves.
As for the authors who are still working on their craft, the only way their ever going to improve is by getting the support and constructive criticism they need to help them become better at what they do.
If we were to censor or 'weed' out their work, how would they ever be given the chance to excel and become something more? You never know, one of those authors could be the next J.R.R Tolkien, Anne Rice, or Stephen King (just to name a few authors that I have no affiliation with whatsoever) but because they were 'weeded' out at the early stages of their writing career instead of given proper motivation and guidance, their talent was left to waste away.
Anyway that is my opinion on the topic and I hope it's something you consider the next time you ask to have people's literary works censored, for not only is it against freedom of speech, it's also kind of cruel.
 
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#59886
Kirai
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 34
Yeah it is hard to find fics that you like and yes there are people out there who are horrible with spelling and grammar. I think that if you don't like something just stop reading.

There are a lot of things in writing that are pet peeves of mine but i actually try and read through my pet peeves and see if i can deal with it for the sake of the story if i can't i wont read and i will ask someone who doesn't have an issue with it for the summary. One of my biggest turn offs with reading is first person but that doesn't mean that I still won't read it. If i turn out not to like it i stop.

I also think that finding a fanfic isn't all that much different from picking up a book in a book store and reading. i have found some fantastic authors that are not well known that i enjoy and even books from well known. There are some well known authors that i dislike. So what? I am picky, and freely admit it but what i don't like other people sometimes will like (ok most times). The definition of spam and bad writing is different for everyone.
 
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#59887
naqaashi
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 34
I understand your frustration at having to waste precious time trawling through a whole host of mediocre stories before you alight upon a good one. But the truth is, the Sess/Kag pairing is one of the largest fandom pairings around and as a result, it invites a plethora of stories. Often these are written as mere wish-fulfillment, and thus bypass all pretense to originality or even decent writing.

With so many years of existing, the fandom has simply changed, and things that were once looked at askance are now given full reign in stories, especially in AU fics. You might say…the fandom has grown modernized. There’s a niche for every kind of story. It can take some getting used to…but you just need to discover what you have a taste for and stick to reading those kinds of fics.

Coming down to your original lament. What’s a classic and what isn’t is very subjective. Sure, there are some writers who are universally considered classic fic authors, but then there are a whole breed of stories that may be classics for a section of the fandom…and not so appealing for another section. I won’t name names here, but I’ve read fics which were either considered must-read favourites, or were seen as Do-Not-Touch-Territory. Some of them were hackneyed ideas put down in beautiful writing, and others were mediocre or even bad writing – with a wonderfully original and engaging plot.

So, it would be a little unfair to not give such stories their due, wouldn’t it? Fanfiction is not about generalizing. It’s all about creativity, wish-fulfillment, doodling to pass the time and just…being in love with love, I guess.

Don’t compare Fanfiction.net to Dokuga. They’re both very different sites, in terms of scale, atmosphere and range. Fanfiction.net is the place where it all began, and likely where it’ll end too! But Dokuga was built out of and is still sustained by the pure passion and respect that people have for a possible romance between Sesshoumaru and Kagome. They aren’t mere characters here. They’ve grown into people. When we write stories about them, we’re just trying to add to that magic, and in return be touched by it ourselves.

It would be very, very unfair for us to deny anyone the opportunity to be a part of that magic, wouldn’t it? And to tell them that they don’t deserve it, simply because of a few misplaced commas and some errors in spelling – would be incredibly hurtful, would it not?

I guess what I’m trying to say is, put up a spam filter in place and you wouldn’t be denying them just their creativity and their desire to be a part of this community. You’d be denying them a very real and personal part of their imaginations and desires – and the chance to make their personal fantasies come true. Even if it’s just on paper.
 
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#59889
Pyreite
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 57
Yups what one person likes another won't, all good points have been raised. I'm not sure on the filtering process myself, though I have seen it used quite a few times on other fanfiction websites. Everyone is different. The irony is now that I think about it I found all of my own favourite stories from various fandoms by taking the time to 'trip' through and surf everything, purely out of curiousity.

That's how I found Forthy, and Tallymark, purely by accident, and not by recommendations or the number of reviews, or even favourites lists. Heck I didn't even know that Dokuga existed back then. I only found out the site was around about six to seven months ago XD.

~ Pyre
 
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Last Edit: 2011/02/28 03:52 By Pyre.
 
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#59891
tinykuma
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
I don't know if anyones mentioned it yet, but a good filter is the recommended stories forum. It's pretty useful for finding new stuff or really old stuff that you've never heard of and it's all stuff that other people have liked.

An actual filter would probably be hurtful for those who didn't make it through the filter and very discouraging. I remember starting a thread that dared everyone to go back and read their first fic. Almost no one wanted to do it because it was so awful. It takes time to get better and shooting down new authors early would prevent future quality stories from being created.

Anyway I recommend the recommended stories forum. Always nifty when you're looking for a good read.
 
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#59894
Priestess Skye
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 696973
Dokuga has become a place where everybody (as long as the rules are followed) is welcome, no matter the quality of their fic. I would hate first time writers to not write because they feel that their fic wouldn't get accepted. it takes guts to post up your first fanfic, whether it's what another member would deem quality or not. We would never want to deter that.

Wiccan screens everything that is posted on this site. She doesn't censor based on quality. She looks to make sure they are following our rules.

I'll be honest and say I don't even like the idea of screening based on quality. It goes against the very principles on which this site was founded. If you like something, you can seek recommendations or favourite fics you've read that you've enjoyed.
 
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#59895
FayeMegan
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 15
Priestess Skye wrote:
I'll be honest and say I don't even like the idea of screening based on quality. It goes against the very principles on which this site was founded. If you like something, you can seek recommendations or favourite fics you've read that you've enjoyed.

I agree with Skye...

(Off topic, wow Skye you have 499 posts!)
 
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#59896
Walter205
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 46
While I don't see this discussion ending on a positive note, I will say that the Quarterly Dokuga Awards serve as a basic filter for what you're probably looking for in terms of a 'good' story. If you've gone through the winners, then go through past winners and/or past nominations.

While a lot of people might like a filter to weed out the haystack for them, in the end they would probably find a lot of offended authors all too willing to jam the needle into their eye(s).
 
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#59900
Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stor 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 0
One of the things you are neglecting to realize is that most published writers admit to having poor grammer skills and to being horrible spellers. They luckly have editors to fix these problems. I have read many "bad stories" by writers that later wrote great stories.. Most of us don't start great, we work at it and learn by trial and error before we even can be called good.
~*the darkness within*~
 
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#59902
Lucy Morningstar
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 2
I don't agree on having filters for fanfiction. It's not like Dokuga's a publishing company with quality-check rights. It simply puts the high-classers up there, while stamping on the low-classes.
Then again, what defines a good fanfiction? I myself seldom read popular fanfiction--because, they seem so general and mainstream, no matter how good the grammar is, and surprisingly not to my cup of tea. It doesn't help that I avoid long stories, and genres like 'action' and 'adventure' don't appeal to me.
Each writer to his own niche of readers. So segregating them is probably not the best idea. That's my take.
 
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#59904
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 23
In addition to the aforementioned Recommended Fics and past award nominations, I like trolling through the Searching For Fic section myself. Occasionally I'll catch a gem I've never heard of before in there. You're guaranteed that at least one person found the fic to be memorable, and sometimes you'll see other people chime in on how great the story is.

At the very least, I don't think I've ever seen a fic mentioned in these places that had horrid grammar, spelling or coherency.

On a different note, I think Spark used to have a ratings system. While there may have been positive aspects to it, from some of the authors notes I've pieced together, it may have also been used for personal agendas (in terms of lowering ratings of an author you didn't like etc).

As it is, I think Authors can feel self conscious enough as it is if they don't feel they get enough reviews. I wouldn't want anyone's creative genius to be inhibited by "why is my rating so low?" when they could be thinking about the next plot element of their story. ^_^
 
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#59905
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: -666
Ah, why do the fun ones always start right after I go to bed and before I have to go to work.

I will be giving my input shortly.
 
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#59906
Freya Ishtar
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 39
Yeah, at risk of repeating what's already been said (barring the whole 'bastard Sesshomaru' thing, 'cause that's a matter of taste I guess, I don't like that myself, but anywho) you can't reject a fanfic based on the quality of its writing so long as its within the site's rules for posting fanfics. Like many other writers, I came to fanfiction as a way of honing my writing skills because I do one day wish to be a published novelist and while, yes, my first attempt was rather warmly welcomed . . . what if it hadn't been? What if I'd been told 'you can't post that crap on this site'? And I only have the confidence to keep posting now and to work at a potential literary career because I've been (minus a 2 year absence from the fanfic scene) given support and allowed to post and repost and work things out and keep trying at it.

I do understand the frustration, it is a bit disheartening to read a summary or title that sounds promising and then you find you just can't read it because the story, itself, is just gods awful.

But that's when it's up to you as the reader to help that author. If it's the plot that you don't like, stop reading it, just like everyone says about those that leave harsher-than-necessary reviews for that reason. However, if you're not pleased with the fic because it's poorly written, because there's a Mary Sue (at this, I would like to remind everyone that a 'Mary Sue' is not a term that applies to 'all' OC's or self-insertations, just the ones that are done poorly or portray the OC/Self-insertation character in the 'I'm so amazing, but I don't know it, everyone's in love with me and no one hates me for it' light [there's actually a quiz for how Mary Sue these characters are, which is why I know this, but let's get back on topic]) then don't be just another lurker that runs away from a story that needs help and a writer that needs support. Do the job of a good reader and leave a review that offers constructive criticism. It's my firm belief that the reason many of these fledging writers (and yes, in some cases, not so fledging) don't improve is because so many readers just don't bother. They shrug and say 'ugh, this is crap' and leave it be. Don't vent your frustration by going 'terrible writers, awful stories, blah, blah, blah' . . . do your part to help those writers become better.

(And I was wondering where Lady B was, only to see she posted while I was typing this XD)
 
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Last Edit: 2011/02/28 10:28 By Freya Ishtar. Reason: typo
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#59908
Synyster Star
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 10
Another point you have to remember is that not EVERYONE is privy to Microsoft Word, or other grammar/spelling editing software. I know I'm not, and I have to deal with basic freebies like Open Office. I'm terrible at Grammar, and I can admit it. I'm pretty good at catching my spelling errors (most of the time). yes, I do get the grinding of the gears when I read a story that's not in my tastes, but that doesn't mean its not a good story. There are plenty of stories that are diamonds in the rough that just need a good beta. Just remember, and as Skye said (as well as other who are awesome sauce on here) Dokuga isn't like fanfiction.net We want to give starting out writers a chance.
 
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#59911
Anna
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 1
Yay! Woke up this morning still feeling kind of frustrated, but after reading everyone's replies (they were surprisingly kind and understand, I was expecting to get shouted down for my bout of roaring ) made me feel better. I don't want to be a dream crusher...haha. But truthfully, it probably would be more productive to be a part of the 'answer', is there a place on Dokuga where others can volunteer Beta efforts? I only like reading but don't have enough patience for writing...
 
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#59912
FallenTenchi
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 9
On the forum, under fanfiction you'll find a link names "beta" you may post there stating you offer your help as a beta
 
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#59915
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 1
Walter205 wrote:
I will say that the Quarterly Dokuga Awards serve as a basic filter for what you're probably looking for in terms of a 'good' story. If you've gone through the winners, then go through past winners and/or past nominations.

This. I have done this many times since I became a member here. It's super awesome.

I am also a picky reader. My mind gets boggled easily by poor grammar and stories littered with type-o's and plot holes. I also tend to ONLY read completed fics...although there are a few exceptions because of high quality and/or entertaining works.

Generally speaking, though, whether it's a fanfiction or a novel from a store, if I can't make it through the first chapter, I'm done with it. There are probably some really great stories out there that I have passed up because of that, but I'm certainly not hurting for reading material.

I agree with everyone else that there should not be a filter here based on spelling/punctuation, etc. There was a time when I was just starting to write, and I'm sure such a filter would have stymied my creative spark.
 
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#59916
Riku Ryuu
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 19
When I first read this, the only thing I could imagine was the horror of having a story put on this 'spamstory' list. Just think of what it would be like if one of your stories, possibly one you worked on for more than a month, was voted as bad and that was that. No, it would be terrible.

What would get you on the list? A misspelled word? The wrong use of it's? A fanfic where everything in sight dies?

For the first few, that is just what happens when writers are trying to get out more chapters quickly, or if they do not have a beta. I do this myself because I don't want someone to edit my work. The last can be avoided by just looking at the category. I know not to click on dark fics cause I can't handle it.

This is just my opinion. Please do not be offended, I do not mean to criticize you. I just want you to understand.

Thank you.
 
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#59917
WiccanMethuselah
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Re:Filtering only good Sesshoumaru and Kagome stories 6 Years, 10 Months ago Karma: 192
Frankly, folks, this kind of a "filter" will never be a part of Dokuga. Not as long as *I* am an Admin here, at any rate.

First, as others have pointed out, it's unworkable to begin with. Filtering for one person's tastes will not work for another. Attempting to build a filter that will work for all would be so cumbersome and expensive, it's far past our capabilities.

Second, again as others have pointed out, such a thing would be discriminatory in the extreme... and Dokuga doesn't go for discrimination. This is a hobby for most, a haven for many, and a bright spot in otherwise hectic and hurried lives for still more. I, for one, would vehemently oppose anything that would make the experience here any less welcoming.

There is no place on this particular site for something of that nature. I am glad to see that so many agree with that philosophy, but I wanted to take the time to assure everyone that, while I am still an Admin here, this won't ever become reality.

With that said, I am very glad to see all the alternative suggestions that our members have come up with - they are truly the backbone and the heart of this site! Thank you all!

~~Wiccan~~
 
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