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Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial?
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TOPIC: Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial?
#47514
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Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 4
I have noticed an influx of this idea in some fanfic. And I was wondering what others thought of this.

Myself, I think it is wrong to introduce into your fanfic if you are going to put a youkai and human together as a couple. For instance Sess and Kagome. I just think that a youkai like Sesshoumaru would not allow himself to become involved in a human if his offspring would be sterile. In many fics, he is portrayed as a being with a title to pass on and a dynasty to care for.

I for one think this should not be used in any youkai and human relationship story. I am starting to think that reasons for Inuyasha and Kagome to not be involved have run out and some one has added this into the fandom myth and didn't think of the reprocusions this would cause.

What is your take on this? Would all hanyou be sterile or just a select few?

Because this is an opinion based discussion, please respect others and their opinions. We all have them and not everyone will agree.

To the mods - If you feel this is too harsh or could cause problems, I am sorry in advance.
 
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#47516
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 75
I don't think it is WRONG for a writer to put anything they want in their fanfic. If a reader doesn't like it, they can find something else to read.
 
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#47517
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 5
I definitely agree with Knifethrower, it's never wrong for a writer to write anything they like, there will allways be readers who don't like it, it's impossible to take everyone's opinion into account.

Also, I don't think putting Sesshoumaru and Kagome together is wrong because he is youkai and she is human, and that their offspring could be infertile. I personally don't like stories that turn Kagome youkai just for the sake of them having youkai babies, or because Sess 'just hates humans that much, so she should be youkai for him to love her'. I always find it more interesting to read how the author thinks they should work around that paticular obstacle.

Lastly, I don't know if there is anything in the canon universe that says that hanyou should be sterile. I mean, in the real world, sure, if you breed a donkey and a zebra, the offspring will be infertile, as it generally will be with all cross species breeding. But, I don't think 'real world rules' apply here, I mean, come on... time travel and monsters?

So, to sum it up, if you want hanyou to be infertile and you want that fact to be an obstacle standing between Sess and Kags, that's your choice. There will be people liking the idea, there will be those who hate it, as with anything.
 
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Last Edit: 2010/08/10 11:42 By Mitsje.
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#47518
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 2
I personally think that it would vary from hanyou to hanyou. Depending on how well balanced their two halves, their blood, is.
For example, Inuyasha and Shiori, they look fairly normal so their blood is probably fairly balanced and therefore more likely to be fertile. I liked how in one or two stories I had read (can't remember the name of it so forgive me) Inuyasha was only fertile when one of his halves was at their peak. On the new moon, his human night, and when his youkai blood would be at its peak which logically would be the opposite time, the full moon.
And then you have hanyou's like Jinenji, the poor guy, who's blood obviously didn't mix well which makes it likely that he'd be sterile due to the lack of compatability of his two halves.
If you're going to do a Sess/Kag though, I would hope you would mix in some way for Kagome to produce full-youkai offspring, as some have done, if you are going to put it as all hanyou are sterile. Because poor Sesshy does need someone to pass the kingdom to.
Well, that was my two cents.
 
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#47520
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 4
Just to make this clear. I am not against what writers put into their stories. This is just an idea that I saw and tilted my head and said "what?" I thought a nice little discussion about what others had thought about this. Also I am a big fan of Sess/Kag. This idea of sterile hanyou just doesn't fit with this pairing.

And I agree that if you don't like what is written, then go read something else.

But in regards to the topic.

Would all cross breeds be sterile? Now crossing totally different breeds, then yes I can see the offspring would be sterile. But for breeds that are very similar I don't see all offspring being sterile. Not all mules are sterile. Most males are but a few females are fertile. And if you look at dogs. Breeds of dogs are mixed to create new breeds.And when you look at high level youkai they carry human characterists.

So if Inuyasha was sterile. Is it likely that any offspring from Sesshoumaru with a human be sterile?
 
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#47523
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 3
I have read several stories where hanyous are sterile. I neither agree or disagree with the idea. My take on the concept is that the story belongs to the writer. And any consequences of the storyline also belong with the writer.

With the writer's muse, all things are possible. I don't know how many of you are familiar with Marvel Comics, but there was a mini series some time ago that involved the Vision and the Scarlet Witch. He is an android. She is, well as the name implies, a witch. They fell in love and got married. She used her magic to allow them to conceive. They had twins.

All things are possible in the world of fiction. It is up to the writer's skill whether or not they make the possibilities believable. We may or may not agree with those possibilities. There have been many stories I have read where I did not agree with the writer. But in some instances the writer was good enough to make me believe in spite of that. Those are some of the best stories I have ever read.

I love it when a writer pushes the envelope and challenges me and my ideals. That is what I, as a reader, ask of a writer. Make me believe. Do that, and I will be a fan for life.
 
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Last Edit: 2010/08/10 12:43 By Time on my hands.
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#47524
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 75
Breed and species are two very different things.
 
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#47525
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 75
The term "breed" would, in human terms, equate with race or ethnicity: European descent, African descent, Asian descent, Native American descent. The objection to crossing breeds would be eugenics. Species is totally different. Hybrids are a cross between SPECIES, not breeds. If you are discussing this from a scientific point of view, it is of utmost importance not to begin garbling terminology.
 
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#47526
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 5
Personally, I think it's whatever works best for the story you're trying to write. As there are no real youkai, we can't really test the theory. So whatever works for you, go for it!
 
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#47527
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 75
I have always regarded stories where Kagome is turned into a demon in order to be good enough for Sesshomaru, or to be accepted by Sesshomaru, to be the equivalant of a story about a black woman and a white man in pre-civil war south, which would be resolved by the black woman becoming white. To me, a satisfying story would involve the white man realizing that the black woman is awesome as she is, and that it is society that is wrong, not her race. Or perhaps, he felt that way all along, and the story could deal with how the couple handles the prejudices of the society they live in. If the story is sad, maybe the two decide that it is really to difficult for them to be together. As for offspring, if the white man loved and admired the black woman, would he want their child to only reflect HIS heritage? It seems as though, if a couple really did love each other and admire each other, they would want their baby to carry the traits of both. The lesson of canon InuYasha is, after all, that everyone is different, and everyone has their own unique value.
 
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#47528
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 4
I just learned something. Did you know that if you breed a fertile female mule with a horse you got a foal. If the dame of the mule was a female horse.

To get even more technical. How many chromosomes do youkai have compared to humans? Is it even or odd numbers?
 
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#47529
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 4
I just grew up. I am a Whelp. Yee pee.
 
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#47530
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 5
I've enjoyed reading so many wonderful stories here and I don't think having Sesshoumaru a professional organizer is no more of a stretch than having Inuyasha sterile (or neutered . It plays into a story line and gives it the dramatic edge it needs to capture a readers attention and hold onto it for the duration and keep them coming back for more.
 
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#47547
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: -666
I just read an article where they explored "grolar" bears, which are hybrids of polar and grizzly bears. They've found at least one bear that turned out to be offspring from one, proving that hybrids between species don't have to be sterile.

There are also some ligers (lion/tiger hybrids) that have reproduced as well.

It seems that nothing is absolute, because nature always finds away. (Yay genetics and mutation!)

As for a plot device, sterility is a valid topic. In fact, it's a very real topic considering how many people struggle with it.
 
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#47554
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 11
knifethrower wrote:
The term "breed" would, in human terms, equate with race or ethnicity: European descent, African descent, Asian descent, Native American descent. The objection to crossing breeds would be eugenics. Species is totally different. Hybrids are a cross between SPECIES, not breeds.

This point is, for me, the biggest issue with the question of hanyou sterility. If you're going to be scientific about it wouldn't humans and youkai be entirely different species? it's like trying to argue whether the offspring of a horse and a lion would be fertile or not.

So I find it interesting that the issue of hanyou being sterile comes up in stories with reasonable frequency - but its much rarer for someone to address biological incompatibility between the parents (i.e. Sess & Kagome; in fact, poor Kagome seems to get pregnant on the first go an awful lot).

Since I obviously read fanfic my answer to this question is: you can't be scientific about it. As long as the author has a basis and explanation for their decision, I'm game for however they want to write it.
 
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Last Edit: 2010/08/11 00:08 By janey-jane.
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#47556
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 75
Yeah, but if you are going to frame an arguement for or against InuYasha being sterile based on science, you can't confuse a mixed breed (which would have no impact on fertility), with a hybrid between two species. That is just... basing your arguement on a falacy. If you do that, everything that comes after is totally invalid.
 
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#47558
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 4
Could someone verify what the translation for Hanyou is. Is it half-breed or something else?

Being that I have only heard Inuyasha called half-breed, I would have to go with breeding between breeds not species. So, with this thought, would he be sterile or fertial?
 
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#47560
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: -666
a Mysticlady wrote:
Could someone verify what the translation for Hanyou is. Is it half-breed or something else?

Being that I have only heard Inuyasha called half-breed, I would have to go with breeding between breeds not species. So, with this thought, would he be sterile or fertial?


Well for one, it's fertile and not fertial. I'm not normally a spelling nazi, but that's starting to bug me.

Hanyou is a slang term created by the author. With han meaning "half" and you being short for "youkai", the most accurate translation should be half-demon. I might be wrong. It's been a while since Japanese class.

I do believe they are different species and not breeds, because you don't see 1/4 demons being expressed. No one is 1/8th demon or 1/8th human. Hanyou implies 1/2 and nothing more.

Half-breed is likely a messy translation
 
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#47562
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 75
DO YOU THINK THAT DEMONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A VARIETY OF HOMO SAPIEN?

There is no question that InuYasha's mother was a human and his father was a demon. Unless a demon is homo sapien, InuYasha is a mixture of two separate SPECIES.
 
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#47563
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 204
Sakuramaru wrote:
Personally, I think it's whatever works best for the story you're trying to write. As there are no real youkai, we can't really test the theory. So whatever works for you, go for it! To you, Miss Sakuramaru, you had better watch out or Lord Grumpy Pants will come and get you for saying he doesn't exist!

Now I guess i'm going to throw in my 2cents. get comfy as a reader I'm going to lay it out as i see it. (not to offend mind you, but just as i look at it from a point of view.)

1. I've actually asked myself this very same question about sterility, as well as fertility in hanyou not much more then a week ago late night in chat. I even came up with a plunnie (plot bunny) for the story line and how i personally would work it. So i'm actually amused to see that i'm not the only one obviously thinking about this at the moment.

2. I don't know who said it but i would just based off thought, agree with who ever said their blood would have to be stable, for them to be able to reproduce or not. Inuyasha, and Shiori, and if you take it from the 4th movie those kids, and that menator guy, are then only hanyou in all of IY.

If you think about it, from the first bet it would seem that 3 on the show and 4 in the movie making it a total of 7 hanyou all together, all of them were more human like but Jininji. That being said i would think that all of them would be able to reproduce, on the other hand you would have to ask yourself how that child would reproduce?

Like lets say Inuyasha married/mated a female demon their offspring would be 3/4 demon, while if he married/mated a human their offspring would be 1/4 demon. I think it really would depend on the break down on how the body worked more then anything else. if their blood, the hanyou, was so out of whack in their own creation, like Jininji, i cant really see how it would be able to reproduce in the future. But if they came out "pretty" then i would think that they could.

3. as someone that reads a lot, i kinda have to say i've thought about this, whole, if they are sterile, how would Kagome and Sesshomaru deal with it. But if your really looking that deeply into it, you should consider before hand that for one Sesshomaru is an obnoxiously strong demon, and Kagome's and insanely strong miko.

A lot of people want to say that making her more powerful is out of character (OOC), but they fail to look at the truth of the matter that Kaogme's soul/body was the CONTAINER for the Shikon, thus it had to be stronger then the jewel itself in order to keep it locked up and under control, cant have a weak lock or power would get out.

One way or another Kagome is probably as strong or stronger then Sesshomaru. Would her miko body even allow a demon offspring to lay roots, and grow? honestly probably not. Even if she some how lost that power you'd still be looking at the chance of "pretty and stable vs grotesque and unstable," then you have to take into accord for how stable is stable?

If you look at the lighter side of things, Inuyasha's at VERY possible least, 65 years old including pinned time to the tree, during this time frame via Manga we see him loose control of himself at very least 3 times. The manga only lasts during one school year for Kagome, some time during the warm time, to the winter, so their travels only really last maybe 5 - 6 months, she never has a birthday and we never see her wearing short sleeves again in the manga, only once, so its like 2 maybe 3 seasons max. in that time frame Inuyasha loses it 3 times, turns to his darker side to kill maim and destroy.

Can you really consider it all stable? Nope you cant.

Considering all that, even if you had a "pretty child" between a pair like SK, you can't really say they would be stable, or that they would or wouldn't be fertile.

.

the REAL point to all this ranting, is that for one thing, what ever you do make it work for your fiction, and make it make sense. other then that, there's really no such thing as wrong when it comes to fiction, bad...SURE... but not wrong.

You can have a preference for anything.

Like i myself like Kagome as a demon, i don't hate her as a human but i don't like the idea that they find some awesome love in life and know that in less then 50 years she will be gone leaving him to hundreds maybe thousands of years alone or with someone else, and she is nothing but a memory.

I personally cant stand for that in my own writing so i don't write it. I don't knock people that keep her human and allow them to get their happy ending but don't show anything after that.

Its all fiction, its all your opinion, and you should be writing for yourself, and no one elses opinion should really matter but your own.


okay i'm done now ~_~
 
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Last Edit: 2010/08/11 02:42 By sugar0o.
 
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#47574
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Re:Hanyou - Sterile or Fertial? 8 Years ago Karma: 10
I think it is very defintely an interesting idea. That could be taken in a number of ways.

For example: if a half-demon and human breed they could end up with a almost completely human child because the blood might just 'water' down too much at that point. Or on the opposite point a demon and half-demon could end up with an almost fully demon kid.

There are really any number of possibilities.

I don't mind the idea of sterility if folks want to use it, they have justification behind it really with a lot of the strange breeds that have come up.

I think the idea of a half-breed and a human mixing being even more taboo than a demon and human would be a interesting plot point too...what if having even less demon blood made it more difficult to control the darker urges? All sorts of fun possible details there.

As far as turning Kagome into a demon or not...

Well, I think if it happens in the writing it's cool, if she just starts out that way I usually am confused as to why it's not labeled Alternate Universe. As obviously it's not the canon world to begin with.

Mislabeling bothers me

That's all for me though I think.
 
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