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Using Japanese!
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TOPIC: Using Japanese!
#68523
Skyisthelimit
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 8
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you can use "otou" "okaa" "onii" and "onee" and whatever suffix you prefer with your own family as well. I think it's a matter of preference, and I also think "chi chi" "haha" etc is a little more...old fashioned? I don't know about that last part, but I do know that japanese families definitely do use "otou, okaa, onii, and onee" in reference to their own family as well.

I also would like to add that a common slang among guys for father is "Oyaji" which basically means "Old man"

EDIT - err why is this at the top of the forum? >_>...
 
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Last Edit: 2011/08/02 22:14 By Skyisthelimit.
 

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#66770
sugar0o who lurks
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Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 216
ha! okay so I know some of us do it in fanfiction, i do, but not a lot, but i found this and wanted to share, i think they are correct. so hope things helps someone!

japanese.about.com/bl_family.htm

English word........Talking about your family........Talking about anothers family

Father.....................chichi..........................................otousan
Mother.....................haha...........................................okaasan
OlderBrother..........ani...............................................oniisan
OlderSister............ane..............................................oneesan
YoungerBrother....otouto..........................................otoutosan
YoungerSister.......imouto.........................................imoutosan
Grandfather...........sufu.............................................ojiisan
Grandmother........sobo............................................obaasan
Uncle......................oji.................................................ojisan
Aunt.........................oba..............................................obasan
Husband................otto..............................................gushujin
Wife.........................tsuma.........................................okusan
Son..........................musuko......................................musukesan
Daughter................musume.....................................ojousan
 
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Last Edit: 2011/07/11 10:06 By sugar0o.
 
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#67439
Langus
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 6
They are correct, from what I can tell. Though I will advise that I have never heard a Japanese person refer to their grandfather as sufu or their grandmother as sobo. Considering the level of respect they have for age in this country it would be deemed by some to be disrespectful. Most people use the proper ojiisan or obaasan when talking about their grandparents.
 
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#67440
sugar0o who lurks
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 216
awesome! Yeah i wasnt sure, i was looking around for "brother" as in speaking of your Own brother not onii-san that everyone like to toss around.

btw, if you want to fix the image in your forum tag:
[img[b]Space here[/b]size=400No Space here]fc65.deviantart.com/fs40/f/2009/031/4/4/441a265f509fa2446485eec83c5450ec.jpg[/img]

well the link wont do right but it should look like this

[img(space here)size=400] at the beginning
Link in the middle
then [(no space here)/img]
 
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#67444
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 4
Here are a couple more that you don't have:


English..............Japanese

Brothers (2+)........Kyoudai
Sisters (2+).........Shimai
Family...............Kazoku
Parents..............Ryoushin
Baby.................Akachan

Also, I don't think "Imouto" and "Otouto" have to have "san" on even when talking about other people. And I've never seen "Musukesan," the way I learned it was "Musukosan."

I could probalby put up a bunch of other words but I'll stop there
 
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#67445
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 216
striahgt from the website :3 r0o springs Engrish!
 
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#67454
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 8
Otouto, younger brother, and Imouto, younger sister, don't actually have any suffixes at the end because they are younger no suffix is needed as suffixes are used to show status. Since these terms are used for a younger generation no 'san' is needed as they are younger and do not need to be shown that kind of respect, not in a mean way mind you it is just how it works. At least if I remember right from class (:
 
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#68498
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 15
Hey Sugar0o, long time no see Hope you're doing well!

I use a plethora of Japanese words, enough so to make a whole glossary on my account which gets updated weekly (I have to add about six words even to this list, haha). So, for Japanese Words, here's my input.

((NOTE: Please interpret ö and ü as having lines '-' over them, not '..'. My apologies, but these '..' symbols are the closest things I can offer in terms of visual queues.))

ö - A letter used in place of 'ou', which happens to be the phonetic sound and closest spelling of 'ö' without writers needing to seek the special character out in their word documents. For instance, depending on who is writing it, Sesshömaru may also be seen spelled as 'Sesshoumaru' or simply as 'Sesshomaru' (all three are acceptable). Also, not every 'o' sounds like 'ou' in Japanese, so both 'o' and 'ö' make common appearances.

ü - Another letter used in Romanji (spelling of Japanese words based off of the roman alphabet and rules of pronunciation). I am not entirely sure what sound it makes, but it does appear sometimes.

-chan - A suffix used to communicate endearment between speaker and addressee.

Denka - An honorific used after stating the name of a prince or a princess (non-sovereign royalty).

Fushigi na Döbutsu - Literally meaning 'Animal of Wonder', this rare term is used to describe an animal with human levels of intellect which is capable of emitting humanoid sounds or even speech. Kitsune (foxes) are prone to this title, since they may take the appearance of a fox and still act and sound like a human.

Heika - An honorific used for addressing a ruler (sovereign royalty).

Hidenka - An honorific used after stating the name of the consort of a prince (denka).

Höshi - A priest who has dedicated his life to the teachings of Buddha and follows the practices of Buddhism. Similar to miko save for religious practices.

Inu - Directly translates to 'dog'.

Jyaki - The malicious, tainted form of yökai energy. This word is used in reference to any energy-based attack performed by someone with habitually cruel intentions. For example, Naraku's miasma attack is referred to as jyaki by Sango in Japanese, but Shippö's Foxfire is seen as yöki (the yin to jyaki's yang). Also see yöki.

Kami - In Shinto faith, kami are spirits or natural forces. Often translated to mean 'God' or 'deity', such a translation is not wholly accurate.

Ki - Commonly known as chi or qi (Chinese words for ki) and commonly referred to as 'spiritual energy', is the basic, universal life energy which is believed to flow through all matter. Individuals who dedicate themselves to spiritual teachings and practice self-awareness meditation are believed to be able to possess higher levels and awareness of ki. This energy is not found in yöki-manipulating yökai, or in other words, it is not found in apparitions who break free of the universal life cycle and live off of their own energy, yöki. Yökai are considered as an imbalance to the otherwise perfect cycle of life energy, and both miko and höshi may exercise the spirit of a yökai with the intention of bringing them back into the natural cycle.

Kitsune - Literally meaning 'fox', this term refers most commonly to the trickster kitsuneyökai, which are capable of tricking human men (their preferred prey for pranks) by transforming into women and luring them astray.

-kun - A suffix used by an elder to address someone younger, or to address any male child or teenager. Calling a male adult kun can be used as an insult to imply immaturity. The suffix may also be used for younger family members of any gender or in some business settings for any gender.

Miko - A shrine maiden who has dedicated herself to the ways of Shinto. Various levels of skill are found in different miko, including individuals who clean the shrines and perform basic ceremonies, individuals capable of chanting charms onto objects or beings, individuals who have mastered their ki (spiritual energy) and exercise great control over it to the point of being able to attack with it in the form of reiatsu (spiritual 'pressure'), and everyone in between. Also see reiryoku.

*Miko Clothing - On their feet, miko wear the split-toed (tabi) socks with zori sandals (which were traditionally made from woven straw or rush stalks and bamboo bark). There is a difference between traditional miko clothing and that which Rumiko Takahashi used, and I will describe them in that order. **Traditionally speaking, miko wore two layers of clothing, the layer we see and undergarments. The undergarments consisted of a wrap-style underskirt (susoyake) which ended short of the ankles and prevented the miko's feet from becoming tangled in the next two layers which cover her legs, and a wrap-style shirt (hadajuban) made of a thin gauze material which is slightly see-through and which consists of short sleeves and ends at the waist. Over these undergarments the miko puts on her long white robe (hakui) which ends around the ankles and in tied into place around the waist with a lightweight obi. Over this kimono-like layer goes the final garment, the andon-bakama (named for its resemblance of a Japanese paper lantern) or hibakama (named for the red color). Generally speaking, it is called hakama, and the design is like a skirt but complicated. As opposed to staying in one piece from ankles to waist, this style hakama splits into a front panel and a back panel starting at knee length, both halves sporting long thick strips of fabric for securing the garment. To put it on, miko step into the center of the hakama (in regards to it being a full skirt around the hem) and take the front half up to tie around the waist and once at the back. Once this is secured, the back half will be hanging down by their ankles. They pick this up, place the stiffened hem around the bow (holding the front half in place) at the small of their back, and tie the cords once in the front into a bow. With that, the miko is traditionally dressed. **Rumiko Takahashi did not give her characters traditional miko clothing, but rather 'pants' (a style of hakama called either machidaka-hakama or umanori-hakama, which are differentiated depending on whether they have a high godet or are designed for riding horseback [respectively]) and a 'shirt' (which most closely resembles a kosode-kimono, or 'short kimono', but the sleeve length is too short). When dressing in this fashion, a miko would have worn a hadajuban (completely optional from what I've seen of Rumiko's work), a white 'kosode', and tied over that either the machidaka-hakama or the umanori-hakama, which would make wearing a hakui improbable due to the split legs and the hakui's length.

As exemplified by Kikyö, sode-kukuri (cords) may be woven through the hems of the sleeves for decoration, and a muha-himo string may be looped around the neck (but its purpose is to attach to the lapels (eri) of the garment and tied together to help keep the garment shut). Another clothing option (for ceremonies) is the chihaya, which is worn as an outer, large-sleeved robe which ends at the knees over the miko garb, and requires the use of muha-himo to keep it in place. Here is a link to an ordained, traditionally garbed miko wearing the chihaya for visual aid: www.shop-japan.co.jp/english-boku/image-e/s06-871s.gif

*Miko Hairstyles - A miko's hair style denotes her rank as a miko. Those with unbound hair are apprentices (jokin) who may serve as part-time assistants for a shrine. Ordained miko wear their hair pulled back, and may wear a hair ornament of washi (white handmade paper) strips tied on by red and white (ceremonial colors) cords called mizuhiki.

no kimi - An honorific used to identify a lord or lady. It typically implies that the addressee of the speaker has great importance and their respect for the other is very high, or is reserved for members of the court. In modern times, it can be used as a joke or to mock someone, calling them a 'princess' based off of behavior.

Oni - A simpleton yökai with low levels of yöki, possessing both human- and animal-based physical features.

Reiatsu - (spiritual pressure). Someone capable of manipulating ki (spiritual energy) is also capable of manipulating said ki into something, said 'something' being generally called reiatsu. Reiatsu can be anything from the energy put into a sütra to a purifying barrier. The power of an individual's reiatsu is measured and limited by their reiryoku.

Reiryoku - The measure of total potential achieved by an individual in terms of ki and their manipulation of it into reiatsu.

**The two definitions above are tricky to differentiate (at least they were for me with the definitions I found online). The following sentence may help: Reiryoku is the term for the total potential with which someone can manipulate their ki and exert it into reiatsu.

-sama - An honorable suffix used to address someone higher in status than one's self, even in terms of a supermarket employee addressing a customer.

-san - The most common respectful suffix, basically translates to Mr., Mrs., Ms. or Miss.

Sütra - Pieces of rectangular paper with charms or spells written on them in ink.

(-)Tennö - I've seen this as both an honorific and as a suffix [hence the (-)]. Literally translates to 'Emperor'.

Yasha - In Japanese, it is a word for 'devil demon'. Due to a commonality in its pronunciation though, many misinterpret it to translate to 'female demon', which is incorrect. In Hebrew, which carries influence into many Asian countries through Buddhism (which began in Nepal and traveled north and east), Yasha is one of four words used to talk about 'salvation' (which covers other words, including prosperity, rescue and wholeness). A yasha in Indian mythology was originally a goblin demon, but changed due to the influences of Buddhism.

Yökai - An 'apparition', including anything from a glowing spirit orb (yürei), devoid of yöki attributes and benign in nature, to a great and powerful apparition such as Sesshömaru (inugami daiyökai). More species- or status-specific terms may be categorized under the general reference word 'yökai', including oni and fushigi na döbutsu.

Yöki - The controlled, filtered form of yökai energy. This word is used in reference to any energy-based attack performed by a yökai who has not been tainted in spirit by ill deeds, and therefore possesses an innate good nature. For example, Shippö manipulates yöki while performing his Foxfire, and Köga can outrun his comrades with ease because of his superior amount and control of yöki fueling him forward (this use of yöki is also why Kagome can sense him approaching). Also see jyaki.
 
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Last Edit: 2011/08/02 09:55 By Aura Depths.
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#68500
Lily Noir
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 11
-san -- the most common suffix, equal in meaning to mister, miss, missus, madam ... It's used in all situations that require politeness

-dono -- comes from the word tono which means master. This suffix was given to nobles (and royalty) and persons that have a higher social standing in society. (Nowadays it's only used by people raised in a traditional family, modern japanese avoids it in favour of sama)

-bozu -- informal way of addressing boys, simmilar to 'kid' or 'boy' in English

-senpai -- This title is given to a person older and more experienced than the speaker. Most commonly used in schools for students of higher classes or in work for people who are longer there

-kohai -- opposite of senpai

-sensei -- literally means 'one who came before'; it's given to: teachers, profesors, doctors, writers or masters of a craft/profession

- no suffix -- extremely important, in Japan the absence of a suffix marks great intimacy, which , in general, only family members or best friends (lovers) have. If anyone not in that circle calls a person without a suffix (jobisute), that person can take offence


Also, there are various variations of the titles of family members:
- Older sister is onee-san, it could be onee-sama if you want others to know you give great respect to your sibling, it could also be onee-chan as an endearment; simmilarly it could be nee-san, nee-sama, nee-chan
- Older brother is onii-san, as with onee-san, there could be onii-sama, onii-chan, nii-san, nii-sama, nii-chan
- Fther is otou-san(read: oto-san), simmilar to onii-san and onee-san, there is otou-sama, otou-chan, tou-san(read: to-san), tou-sama, tou-chan
- Mother is okaa-san, as mentioned above, there is okaa-sama, okaa-chan, kaa-san, kaa-sama, kaa-chan
- Grandfather - ojii-san; ojii-sama, ojii-chan, jii-san, jii-sama, jii-chan
- Grandmother - obaa-san; obaa-sama, obaa-chan, baa-san, baa-sama, baa-chan
- Uncle - oji-san; oji-sama, oji-chan (or you could say: Ryu-oji, Ren-oji)
- Aunt - oba-san; oba-sama, oba-chan

.............

Does anyone know the names of Japanese traditional clothing (and explain what is what)?????? like hakama, fundoshi, haori, etc... ???? The more explained, the better

And what is Anata, or Aijin????
 
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#68502
Chie
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 156
Lily wrote:


And what is Anata, or Aijin????


Anata is one of the words that can be used to say "you", but I believe it also implies intimacy. That is why wives can adress their husbands with anata in which context the meaning is more like "dear" of another affectionate address, rather than "you".

About Aijin I have never heard of, but I guess it's written with the kanji "ai" and "hito" so it would probably mean "beloved". But, I would want to stress that I have NEVER heard this word used anywhere. If one would wish to say "beloved", I'd recommend using koibito instead.

As for adding the -san to imouto and otouto, I guess it's not really necessary, but a polite/respectful person might still opt to use it. I don't know for sure since I've only taken a few Japanese courses and I've never been to Japan, but at least on anime and dorama I have heard imouto-san used when the speaker was referring to his friend's little sister.
 
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#68528
Lily Noir
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 11
Here's a link to the description of all traditional Japanese wear made by Aura Depths. The description is very detailed and informative. I suggest you look it up, it helps a lot.

~lily
 
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#68514
Tangerine Dream
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 8
That is true about imouto-san and whatnot being used in anime's Chie but as I have learned the hard way there is a lot of slang that is only used in certian situations in anime and that when you actually use it, it can be incredibly rude. My own rule of thumb is to try not to use thigns in anime after my japanese teacher yelled at my friend in class for using slang that was incredibly rude to her. >>
 
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#68515
sugar0o who lurks
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 216
Aura Depths wrote:
Hey Sugar0o, long time no see Hope you're doing well!Hello! I know! it's been forever! I need to re-stalk your fictions -nods- :3 glad to see you on Dokuga!

Lily wrote:
And what is Anata, or Aijin????my handy dandy 'Random House Japanese-English/English-Japanese Dictionary' (THIS is a VERY HANDY thing to have when reading fanfiction, can't tel you how many times i've had to look something up b/c an author assumes it common knowledge, and i have no freaking CLUE what they are saying!) says:

Anata:(pronoun) you, darling(used by a woman to her husband or boyfriend.)
Aijin: love, lover, mistress; the other woman.
 
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Last Edit: 2011/08/02 17:16 By sugar0o.
 
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#68516
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 26
I think it can be very elegant and fitting to have some Japanese in a fanfiction, but only if it's done correctly. As an avid and very picky reader, I ask that you please not overkill.. you want your story to flow, but if your readers are too busy trying to figure out what ANATA-NEECHAN AISHITERU, etc, means it could possibly lower your reader count drastically, lol.

I think honorifics (-sama) can be very pretty and fit nicely, as well as formal/traditional names for things.


And to add to what Tang said, it can also be extremely offensive to use certain words in certain situations. When all else fails if you aren't sure what it means in every sense, don't use it.

Balance is key!
 
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#68529
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 11
Oh, thank you ro0 and Chie, I was always wondering about those two words, they appear quite a lot in fanfics I read.(Aijin in only one fic, but it stuck with me)

But, that got me thinking. Could someone explain all the 'versions' of the pronoun you in Japanese. I know that there are different words for addressing someone and a defferent level of respect and politeness in each (like how kisama - you - is always translated like bastard and any such insult). So I was wondering if anyone who knows could explain that and the distinction between each.
And maybe even the differend 'versions' of I (like watashi, boku, ore........ They all mean I, but what's the difference???)

~lily
 
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#68530
Chie
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 156
Lily wrote:


But, that got me thinking. Could someone explain all the 'versions' of the pronoun you in Japanese.
And maybe even the differend 'versions' of I (like watashi, boku, ore........ They all mean I, but what's the difference???)

~lily


About the different 'you's, I don't know, since I don't know Japanese well enough to understand the different levels of respect. ^^; The way you adress another person in Japan(ese) is always depending on the status of the people involved. Is the person you're speaking to lower or higher up than you? How well do you know each other? There are so many things to consider, that as a mere beginner I don't even want to venture into that particular mess.
And you might have to change your whole manner of speaking according to the situation (like using keigo)

As for "I" the difference between the words you mentioned is from what I've gathered (again, I have only taken a few courses of Japanese and have never been to Japan, so my linguistic knowledge is very much limited)...
Ore is maybe more slang and it is the least polite version one could use. In anime and such generally the "punk" type of characters refer to themselves as ore.
Boku again is more polite, and in anime used generally by the "studious" type.

Though I'd like to point out that anime does not always translate well to real life, as has already been pointed out in this thread, but I thought it'd help to serve as a contextual example...
Also, both ore and boku can only be used by males.
Watashi is the "I" we were taught to use in my Japanese class. It is the most neutral way of saying "I", and I've also understood that it's gender neutral.
On top of these words there is also atashi which is the "I" reserved to females to use.
 
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Last Edit: 2011/08/03 07:21 By Chie. Reason: corrections made
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#68541
Lily Noir
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 11
Thank you It clears some up.
 
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#68548
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 0
When talking a story would u say my musume or ojousan like if they were talking about there own daughter srry if im confuseing I dnt knw how to.word it any other way
 
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#68551
Chie
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Re:Using Japanese! 12 Years, 8 Months ago Karma: 156
wolf89 wrote:
When talking a story would u say my musume or ojousan like if they were talking about there own daughter

No matter what they would be talking about, if the speaker would refer to his/her own daughter, it would be musume. Though if they would be telling a story about something their daughter did or something like that, they might of course also simply just use her name.
 
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